Hainan is a recent transfer partner of Capital One – which is extra awesome because many people got in on the 200,000 sign up bonus! The Capital One transfer rate to Hainan is 2:1.5 and it’s 3:1 from Marriott Bonvoy.
I’m excited to share my first finding today, and will share more later as well.
Here is what the Hainan Airlines “award calculator” shows for Hong Kong Airline’s flights from San Fran (which is identical to the HKG-LAX results):
That is 27,000 miles for an economy ticket to Hong Kong! And only 58,500 in Business Class!
These would be some of the lowest prices anywhere, and it not only turns out to be some of the cheapest flights to Asia (the cheapest), but also a great use of a ton of Cap1 Miles.
But there are more goodies, and more caveats…
Before I get into the details, note that Hong Kong Airlines has a great business class… Or so I’m told. Check out OMAAT’s review of Hong Kong Airlines Business Class Review to LAX.
And while this post is really about raising questions for a program I have no experience with, I think it safely confirms these above prices with minimal taxes!
There are lots of unknowns and this post is about my research more than conclusions. For instance I can’t confirm how to book multiple segments, how easy it is to call, how to price multiple segments, what availability looks like, etc…
My hope is that some of you will have experience to offer, or someone will be certain they can use the cheap flight to HKG and transfer miles and it will reveal more info. I guess I’m throwing this on the web in hopes that we as a group can figure these details out.
The Crazy Details
While there are many details yet to figure out (like calling, transfers, etc…) there are 5 main issues I already know of which I’ll share here:
- Issue 1: Beware that I have not tested this!
- Issue 2: The “award chart” and “award calculator” show two different prices.
On every Hong Kong Airlines route I’ve searched, the “award calculator” is cheaper, sometimes by a lot. - Issue 3: Only Hong Kong flights start in SFO or LAX and I’m not sure how it handles connections with a partner, like Alaska (since each partner has a different award chart). However, my guess is that it prices them separately, in which case it’s a really bad deal, as it says JFK-LAX in economy is 40k!
- Issue 4: I can’t find in their T&Cs, nor would the calculator indicate how they price connections on the same airline. In other words, does a ticket connecting in Hong Kong and continuing to Bangkok price as one total distance (like most airlines) or does it price the second segment (HKG-BKK) separately (which would be much more expensive)? I believe it’s the total segment length, and I’ll explain why.
- Issue 5: The website gives me an error when I search any non-Hainan route, and gives me a “not enough points error” when I search a Hainan route. So even if I had enough points, I’m doubtful the website will show Hong Kong Airlines availability online. (But since I have no miles, I still can’t test #4).
The most notable issue (but perhaps minor), is that there is a difference in what the “award chart” for Hong Kong Airlines says, and the “award calculator” says. Look at the two side by side.
Hainan Award Chart for redeeming on Hong Kong Airlines (highlighted row 5 is the distance for SFO to HKG):
Their Award Calculator for redeeming on Hong Kong Airlines, also for SFO to HKG:
While both are good prices, I have reason to believe that the second, cheaper price is correct. Here’s why…
First, know that the frequent flyer program Hainan uses, “Fortune Wings Club”, is a shared program between a few Asian airlines including Hong Kong Airlines (much like Miles & More). I believe this is why redeeming for Hong Kong Airlines flights is a zillion times cheaper than an Etihad flight.
So I created a Hong Kong Airlines account to look for availability, and while my search got an error that would take me back to the home page, I briefly got enough info to see the price for a flight from LAX to HKG:
It barely shows “27,000 pts + HKD 380” (~$48 USD)!
Business class also showed “58,500 pts + HKD 902” (~$115). However, note that the availability isn’t as good as economy, like all airlines, but you can still search on Hong Kong Airlines without miles this way, you just can’t click through to see details.
Can you book via HongKongAirlines?
Also an interesting fact, I was then able to long into Hong Kong Airlines frequent flyer program using my Hainan FWC #. Which makes me wonder, if you transfer points over to Hainan, can I then log into Hong Kong Airlines site and have my points show up? This would be awesome, because I think that Hong Kong Airlines search results do not show up on Hainan’s site… and I really don’t want to call.
Pricing Multiple Segments
Unfortunately, just like the “Points Calculator”, when I search for a flight involving a connection (like to BKK or DPS), it shows no results… Which still leaves a mystery regarding how they handle pricing connections.
When I search for LAX to DPS on Hong Kong Airlines (via HKG obviously), it shows no results on Hong Kong Airlines or Hainan’s “Points Calculator”.
However, both can price out the segments separately, and I can find availability on Hong Kong’s site.
Based on the regions on the award chart, the prices would be way better if it could be priced as one distance. However, I’ve no evidence of this and the published award charts seem wrong.
Conclusion
If you can use a flight from LAX/SFO to HKG, this is a no-brainer use of Capital One Miles. An awesome deal.
However, go ahead and use Hong Kong Airlines site to search for availability before transferring.
My only concern for this route would be if you can login with Hong Kong Airlines and book, or do you have to call Hainan.
For longer routes that involve connections, that’s where the big mystery is. Can you combine partners? How does it price? The award charts are not useful here, but they indicate it could be a great deal if it adds up all the segments to price.
Anyone using this? Any experience?!
If you have any thoughts comment or tweet me @travelisfree.
More to come!
Bear in mind that Hong Kong Airlines and Hainan Airlines are owned by troubled HNA Group. Hong Kong Airlines just announced reduction in service to LAX, SFO, YVR. The Hong Kong government has gotten involved, and there’s speculation that Cathay Pacific could buy Hong Kong Airlines and HK Express.
Years ago I got some Lock and Lock (Korean brand) plastic food boxes from my spare Hainan miles. Those boxes are still going strong!
First post in a month and a half and Gary Leff and rapidtravelchai are the first 2 comments…on the same day you post. Legendary! I wish I had something useful to add, but I don’t. Interesting post and good to hear from you anyways 🙂
Why is that legendary?
Gary Leff is pretty much the godfather of points/miles blogging, rapidtravelchai is a bigger blog than this one, but they still both bothered to comment, promptly, on Drew’s post despite him only giving very sporadic attention to the blog. I thought it was impressive… legendary might be strong though, I’ll give you that
Gary Leff is the clickbait clown of points/miles blogging who spends more time reposting the same tired “what’s the best credit card?” post when he’s not busy flexing his unqualified opinions on his audience. The only thing that’s legendary here is that Drew is back after a long break. And in stark contrast to the garbage you’ll find on vftw, this post drops some fat knowledge that will be useful to many.
*krusty the clown voice* “Ughhhhh, tough crowd!”
When I was searching award in Alaska airlines, Hainan pops up as one of their partner flight from Asia to the US. Flight availability was excellent, basically 4-5 days a week it was available in business class. I almost booked it until realising the tax surcharge was around 400 usd for each person, and it looked like I was going to be in one of the older plane that did not have the new reconfigured seats. On their website, it said from May 10th 2017, select international routes would be on the planes with new seats, no way of knowing which route. In the end, I decide against it due to high surcharge.
I do want to caution people that some of the business class availability I’ve seen on Alaska’s search engine is phantom space. The Alaska website and agents are both met with errors when attempting to confirm the space.
Expertflyer seems to show the space accurately, so if you have access to that tool, I’d double-check there.
I haven’t actually redeemed but been lurking around the program for a couple of months. Yes you can transfer points to Hainan and book HX flights. The taxes for round trip biz SFO-HKG is ~$200 and originating in SFO 1-way is ~$60. One thing I would add is Hilton points transfer to Hainan at 2.5:1 ratio (the only reasonable airline transfer partner they have), this is the single best use of Hilton points IMO with the current discounted award pricing (see below).
Issue 2: it’s different because one is standard award pricing and the other one is discounted pricing from their promo https://www.hongkongairlines.com/cms/language!searchByMenuId.action?languageParam.id=10005560829&country_code=HK&request_locale=en_HK The promo was supposed to end by 2019 but was extended till end of this month. Hopefully it gets extended further.
Issue 3 & 4: Not been able to price multiple segments online, my guess is they probably don’t allow multi segment awards, their award chart only shows pricing for travel originating/to HK.
Issue 5: Their mobile app is in general better in terms of usability comparing to searching on their site, it should show availability even when you have 0 miles.
There are some more caveats to the program though, e.g., adding someone else you want to book ticket for will require 30 days wait.
Also if you’re tempted to transfer your huge pile of Hilton points after reading my comment, you most likely won’t be able to get it before the end of the promo if it doesn’t get extended. My last transfer took ~3 month to get the points in my Hainan account lol.
Maybe it’s related, maybe not, but based on a recent experience with Hong Kong Airlines, I’m curious about the cancellation fee policy associated with this award booking…specifically if there are no fees if the change occurs after departure.
My HX ticket allowed me to switch my dates around for free after departure; I flew from SFO to Bali for 37K UR’s r/t including a free stopover in HKG (I also took an excursion to Taipei for 9K Avios & $48 r/t.)
Hi Ed, I think that SFO-DPS rt for 37k UR is an amazing deal. Can you share how did you do this? Because going to Bali has been my long lifetime dream. Is it in Y or J and which airline did you use?
@Ed or anyone who is kind,
Can you please help with my question above? I really need your help and greatly appreciate your response
Sunshine, sorry for the delay; it looks like the system didn’t notify me of a response.
I just booked a cash fare through the Sapphire Reserve portal. Last May, TheFlightDeal posted about the fare–an HX promo for the newly established service out of SFO–for as low as $485. My ticket was a little more since (i) I chose to return on a weekend, and (ii) the free stopover still includes some fees in the form of airport taxes. At the 1.5 CPP redemption rate, I was able to use about 37,200 UR points in lieu of about $560.
A similar deal is still out there; the other day I looked it up for mid-November dates and found SFO-HKG-DSP-SFO for $569 (my search involved leaving on a Wednesday, continuing on a Sunday, and returning on a Wednesday). I couldn’t see it on Google Flights, but a SkyScanner search showed bookable fares on major OTA’s like Orbitz, Expedia, and Travelocity.