Frankly, I don’t publicly talk details of MS, or MS at all. Mainly because I would be stealing ideas, and partly because it’s volitile. Of course, I think a lot of bloggers are given too much killing credit as there seems to be much evidence that fraud is the actual killer of gift cards.
But I do want to go on record and say that completely free MS is possible. And if completely free MS is possible, obviously completely free travel is possible.
Now sometimes there are more profitable strategies, but I guarantee at any given point in time, there are multiple strategies completely free. 100%.
I’d like to reemphasize that talking about this stuff just ins’t my thing. My intention with anything I share is to teach concepts, and it’s because I know I won’t be blowing any deals. Perhaps some are on the way out.
Concepts
First, I’ll give an overview of the main concepts.
- 5x, and profit
- Try, try, try
- Have a back up plan
- Scale
- 3 Days to Liquid
5x
Why do you need to spend money? If: A) There is a signup up bonus, or B) There is a spend bonus. Portal bonus, 5x or something.
Either way, you should never have to spend 1% to do either. Although, I would pay slightly more than 1% if it scaled great enough that it was a substantial benefit.
Try, try, try
Look, you can wait until someone does a step by step and includes arrows, but you shouldn’t. Because 1) you’ll miss the best unpublished deals, and 2) it won’t make things completely clear. The best way to understand things, is to go through the process.
The important thing is to understand a few different ways to liquidate and try them all with every method.
Have a backup plan
There’s no reason not to try things, because you can always use a paid process for liquidating if you absolutely have to. Like PayPal, Square, or even Amazon (for free for a little longer).
Scale
Don’t start big. It doesn’t make sense to. It’s not natural. Plus it takes a while to gain the confidence and understanding fully. But also the bigger risk isn’t nearly as worth it early on. It makes way more sense to take bigger risks when there are bigger rewards.
3 days to Liquid
Trust me, you don’t want to hold onto things. Don’t buy things bigger than the back up plan, without scale, and without intent. If your intent is a small test, that’s fine. But if it’s just because you can… don’t. Plus things end, things change and when you unload after buying, your chances of getting stuck with something during a change decrease.
Proof
There is a card sold in many pharmacies (hit/miss) across the country. Luckily, I have 5x for that. This card can be loaded by other cards, but its original $500 load is with no fee. Which is awesome.
Not only can this card be loaded for completely free, but it can be liquidated for completely free. Many gift cards have free ATM networks. Some have a $400/day limit for withdraws, but that’s per card, and you can always load just $400. Or you can spend the half dollar and MO.
These same cards, should you choose to continue to load them, provide a routing number. I pay bills with routing numbers.
The second method, I eventually got shut down, and there were completely free ways to load. But the first, is still a gold mine, no pun intended.
There are always other free ways of course. Amazon Payments was completely free, but then again, there is Another Amazon Payments, reference intended.
Conclusion
There are a ton of ways to freely MS. Period. Which by any logic, means free travel is possible. Second, everything takes scale. I would share more, but you’ll arrive at the “more” in due time. Don’t get a head of yourself. Start with low hanging fruit and when you outgrow it, scale up. And when you start this stuff, start small and start with things you understand.
A lot of how this stuff actually works is about concepts. A lot of these things set pins the same way, register the same way, have similar fee structures. So just start with something simple and get to know it.
(Thanks for the pic Matt)
$0 manufactured spend doesn’t make travel free.
The manufactured spend itself has an opportunity cost (the time it takes, gas or public transit). Your opportunity cost in terms of the value of time may be low but it’s unlikely zero.
The rewards of that spend have an opportunity cost. If you take miles or points you are giving up the rewards you could have earned as cash. Your cost to earn miles is 2% of the dollars turned over, since you could have earned cash back instead.
The points you generate and then spend have an opportunity cost, because you could have spent those points on something else.
Travel of some kind may be possible without out of pocket cost (although that’s unlikely if you drove to do the activities that generated the points, or if you walked you’ll burn calories that have to be replaced through incremental food, so then you need to argue that food is free…).
But even if it is, that doesn’t make it free. 😉
Gary, as long as you and I agree on the fact that there would be zero out of pocket costs, which is how I’m using the word free, then there’s nothing to disagree with. 😀
Why even dignify Gary with a response. The dude is a chump, plain and simple.
Gary just taught us seventh-grade Economics and we should be so grateful! His imbecilic attempt at making himself seem smarter than he is all over the internet is embarrassing. Based on his moronic argument, the word “free” shouldn’t even be in the English language.
Those of us who speak and appreciate English as a language will continue to use “free” freely. The pretentious bloggers should just keep looking and smiling at themselves in the mirror as I’m sure their Narcissistic ways encourage that. Of course, that presumes an obese blogger like Gary can see his complete self in a mirror.
Well said Raj!
Very true. What’s up with BA bloggers lately promoting “travel isn’t REALLY free?” I feel like they’re realizing Drew’s blog is attracting way more readers and feel like they need to bash it.
Gary, I’m sure if you had a coupon for a free “whatever” at a store, you’d make the trip to go get it. Was it not free, or would you beat yourself up and saying man, this wasn’t really free? To me, $0 out of pocket = free.
I also disagree with Gary’s view (no pun intended), but even so, I can at least acknowledge his argument is based purely on semantics. Like Raj mentioned, his point will just about eliminate “free” from ever actually being used. If I was at the grocery store and something I planned to purchase was on sale as “buy one, get one FREE”, the extra time and energy I’d use picking it up off of the shelf and putting it into my cart would have an opportunity cost as well. I couldn’t imagine a rational person not still viewing that item as “free”, but technically I suppose he’s right.
That being said, the main point of my post is that if you can’t refute his comments without name calling (like DaveS mentioned), then you’re doing yourself a disservice and discrediting anything you have to say, at least in my eyes. I have absolutely no idea what Gary Leff looks like or what his weight is, but if you feel the need to bring his physical attributes into your argument, you’re the one that’s coming across as an imbecile.
Gary,
It’s interesting that you don’t make similar posts on fellow BA blogs, such as Mommy Points Nightline sales pitch to recruit new readers and credit card signups. They used the word “free” 14 times in the 6.5 minute video (For free!, it’s free!, free, free, free!!!). Don’t spend too much time in the bathroom or your favorite In-and-Out; after all, time is money.
Hey fatso Leff,
Did you also post your moronic comment on MommyPoints’ blog when she was busy being on Nightline shilling her creditcards saying how all the shit she got was free? Where were you?
Oh crap, you were cheerleading in the comments.
Talk about being a useless moron.
He is chief financial officer of the Mercatus Center at George Mason University in Virginia. I suppose “useless moron” was on the job description when he applied? I think not. Please disagree with someone without resorting to name calling.
I’ve known a lot of empty suits with high falutin’ titles.
But the main criticism still stands: knocking Drew for using the word ‘free’ while cheering on Ms. Mommy Points for doing the same.
IMO, he owes Drew an apology, or he should go post the same criticism on Mommy Points.
OMG, does he also sign autographs?
Does the job description also have “arrogant jerk”?
Please sign me in!
This guy is his usually dick self.
The bottom of your receipt says what store you shopped at. Not a big deal to me, but I assume you intended to hide that detail.
Bah, w/e. Maybe I’ll go back and change it.
I like the idea… but i hate it when bloggers tell us everything and nothing all at once.
That’s a bit like what this posting sounds!
I would love it if you would share (even privately) which card/s you’re referring to… as as far as I can see , now Amazon is done, there’s nothing to take it’s place….
Alas, my thoughts too. “Everything, AND nothing, all at once.” Not helpful, not even close. The word, “arrogant” yet again, comes to mind.
Drew seems so bedazzled by the “rules of the brotherhood” that those of us not “on the inside” are left to find our way… elsewhere.
Sour grapes aside, no doubt the “help” here is to get us to “chase” the clues, to write in codes/jumps/chaos, so that Gandolf lets us figure “it” out ourselves, and yet still keep coming back for more, in hopes that some crumb falls from the table that 🙂
So we can “google” the key words — er, or go over to Ariana or Greg or FF. To whit, from the receipt, and guessing, apparently we’re referring to a greendot visa debit card, sold “load free” (? you apparently also can get them fee free on-line) and then what…..
Tried googling, “I pay bills with routing numbers.” That doozy gives only one result in the entire internet — here. Who knows? Gandolf may, or may not, reveal his secrets, as he sees fit to bestow them.
Yea, it’s not too hard to figure out which. The unloading is whatever you want once you have a pin. But read. They have a network of 22,000 free ATMS. MOs, Billpay. W/e.
But if you don’t want to provide SSN and you set a pin on the temporary card over the phone, it says the card does not have cash access. So is the only method then to use it as a debit and load to BB or Serve?
Or is there a way to not provide an SSN and still use the card for withdraws at their ATMs?
Are you saying you don’t have to give SSN to get the PIN. IS there a default PIN that works out of the box?
call.
How about STFU!
Hiker , just get back under the rock you crawled out of, do you think you are a smarter frequent flyer, i see your posts on FT so you are an expert. I have more the 10 million miles in 6 programs and i can prove it, and I do not go around insulting people, learn some manners !!!!
I love the blog, but I guess I’m with the detractors here. To say you can do all these wonderfully sneaky things in semi-code doesn’t really do much. For those who already know the secrets, there’s nothing new. For those who aren’t in the secret handshake in-group, there’s nothing new. Looking forward to more of the kinds of posts that make this blog great and unique. Let others talk about these games.
Obviously there’s nothing I wouldn’t tell you.
Seriously, what semi-code? Did you even take a look at the pic? 🙂
lol
Common complaint of people that refuse to think. I don’t live in a part of the country where this deal works, but based on what I know from doing other deals, I could fly over there and spend a weekend doing that.
I guess I can say I’m half-way with DaveS on this one. I don’t agree that this is post is all that secretive (it may not be a fully comprehensive guide to MS, but that’s not what it’s supposed to be). At the same time, maybe I’m just familiar enough with MS that it doesn’t come across as coded or confusing to me.
But I would agree with DaveS that there are already a lot of great, informative resources out there dedicated almost exclusively to MS. You and Carrie’s blogs are the only ones I check daily (unless I’m actively traveling and keeping my internet usage to a minimum in order to actually enjoy the trip), and I love the unique perspectives and information you both provide.
To everyone complaining about not having enough details: quit it. Drew was quite clear as to why he’s not giving every detail in these posts. If you can’t figure out what he’s talking about from what’s here, then keep reading and experimenting (actually, ya know, go out to the store and see what you find!). If you want an illustrated walkthrough of each step, go read MMS.
Agreed completely. People just want things handed to them, someone has to try everything out. There are plenty of hints here to find a successful system that works. Maybe it is a sense of entitlement? A lack of wanting to put effort into something? If you don’t like it, leave!
At first I saw this and it looked like Andrew posted “I agree” to his own comment. lol. “Like did he mean to make an alias?”
Anyways… I think you’re right about keep experimenting, you’ll see it if you go to enough stores, and as you walk through it will click.
It think its pretty obvious what he’s buying and where he’s buying them. Its the rest that leaves me stumped. I’m ok with paying $5-$6 per $500 but I would love to learn how to eliminate that cost.
That card, at that store, is now cash only.
Depends on the location, for sure 100%. Also there are for sure other stores. Look at the store locator on the website and try.
My store has a sign above the cards indicating cash only, but when I take it to check out with a few more items and pay with a credit card, no one bats an eyelash. Give it a try!
Its really pathetic how people can get the idea presented to them, but unless its really mapped out where it takes zero initiative and zero thought on their part, they whine about secret handshakes and make it like there is some sort of secret brotherhood. The internet just makes people feel entitled I guess.
I don’t feel entitled and I’m not interested. I’m not pathetic either. I just think Drew has amazing content without needing to engage in this sort of thing that can be left to others without his gifts in his special areas of expertise. I’m not leaving either, and since some of you take so much offense, I’ll refrain from commenting in the future on this type of post.
Dude [intentional irony], where are the “27 8×10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was” infographics [intentional irony]? I believe this post struck an appropriate balance between suggesting concepts to explore and 2x4ing action-oriented commands across willfully lazy foreheads.
Thanks Brendan.
Ok so the visa gift card is loaded for free? Then we can take it to load Bluebird at Walmart and then pay off the credit card..
On the routing numbers: Once you get a routing and account number you can make ACH payments and/or pay directly in to your own checking account?
Yes to anything. However, if you scale this, you will get your SSN banned, in which case you can still set a pin, but you can’t get a routing number.
Which means you can still do MO, BP, or the $400 fee free ATM withdrawals(assuming there are some ATMs like that in your area). Correct?
Yep. There are 22,000 ATMs, I’m sure there’s one near by, unless you too live in Amish country. Although, at scale cash ins’t easy or fun, and some banks don’t like it as much.
Most of the substance of this post has to do with those gift cards. BUT they are no longer fee-free after the end of the month. Not at my drug stores anyways.
I think things are going that way, which is why I am talking about it lol. However, it is not a nation wide thing yet. AND there are other stores that still have them and sell on credit. Even those aren’t nation wide policies. Valero for example, some work for me some don’t. As I travel around, there seems to be little consistency for the places that do allow.
I’ve noticed that the cards in your picture on this blog post have been around for at least several months. I will sort of be disappointed if they introduce a fee. However, it will still be a great deal to take advantage of in the future.
Drew said: “But I do want to go on record and say that completely free MS is possible. And if completely free MS is possible, obviously completely free travel is possible.”
I think this post is perhaps an oblique way of answering some of the critics who think that travel can never be completely free. In an effort not to be oblique, I will spell it out.
After MP (aka: Mommy Points) went on TV (aka: Nightline) in an interview which gave the impression that much of her travel is free (aka: has no cost at all) there was a bit of a kerfluffle (aka: blog posts, comments, tweets, forum threads etc.) among bloggers and others as to whether any travel can be free. Drew, whose blog is called Travel is Free (aka: TIF) is in the “free” camp. He’s gotten heat about this before from TBB (aka: TravelBloggerBuzz) and others. For months, TBB good-naturedly referred to TIF this way: “Travel is Free (is not !!! )”
To attempt to show that one can MS (aka: manufacture spend) for free is just one more arrow (no pun intended) in the quiver of the free travel camp.
There are indeed still a few fee-free cards out there, but when I add in my time, gas, effort and indeed mental real estate that I devote to buying and liquidating them, they definitely cost me, and I am spending more than just real money when I “buy” them.
Luckily, that memory blurs and fades when I check into a hotel – for “free!”
TWA44. Thank you sooooooooo much for providing aka’s
with the names of travel blog. I am new to all of this miles and points game. And this MP, MMS, ect is very confusion. Is there a site that I can go to to learn the aka’s?
ps Drew, I think you have the best blog out there. Keep up the good work.
Are u able to buy with CC in 3 letters pharmacy?
No.
Drew,
Thanks for the clues and I am not a big MS guy and I could see the clues too. So for the folks who are complaining, even as a novice, I would have to say – please look and read carefully. Pick up on anything different like 3 capitalized words, etc. Google them.
my head is going to explode trying to sort this all out
rite aid-green dot-serve-usbank-yahtzee
I’m shocked no one has jumped on you for killing this deal.
The shock is made up for by the deserved beating gary is taking in the comments.
Drew,
I’m new to this and still have much to learn but don’t need arrows and circles. Went to local – – – store, found the free to load gold things and was told by cashier that green dot requires cash or debit to load so CC spend, my goal, was out. If there is a subtler message I’ve missed it. Guess that’s part of the learning experience.
I’m with HikerT on this: STFU!
I went to Fry’s food the check out the Visa Debit Greendot but they will not allow credit card purchases and the fee is $4.95.
They do not have RiteAids in Arizona so where else can I get a free Greendot Visa card in Arizona?
As referenced in the post, look at the store locator on the web site for the cards.
Try McDonald’s, Chipotle or Taco Bell.
Great post! I called and tried to set the PIN without registering or providing personal info but could not get it to work – what am I missing…thanks!
I’m on the same boat.. seems that the only way to do this without registering is use it as a CC to load Amex for target or ALR or for one last time AP… Is there another way to MS this card without registering??? Anyone??
I cracked it!!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!
Help! Please…
How? please explain to us….
Help please
Good post. I’ll have to give it a try. I have an SW near my house where you can buy PP. I hadn’t thought about these.
Great post. Awful comments.
Plenty of fun comments. You should see if you can get Gary to write the opening reply every day.
well, despite the “Gary hype” here, could anyone elaborate a bit on ATM withdraw using the temporary GreenDot Visa card I bought from Rite Aid?
I bought and registered this GreenDot Visa card. And I found a local MoneyPass ATM. Today I tried to use the card for withdrawal. Not even $20 can be done.
Is this because the card is a temporary card? Should only personalized (printed) cards be used for ATM withdrawal?
If a personalized card is absolutely needed for ATM, then I’ll use these cards for MO or Serve/BB loads then…
Thanks,
I’m in the same boat as JoeBob and HokieE36.
I was fortunate enough to find a Rite Aid by me that accepts CC on Green Dot purchases. So I picked one up and now I’m finding difficulty activating it since I don’t want to provide my social security number.
When I called the automated line, if you don’t input any information when it asks for your social, a message comes on saying you can use this card temporarily BUT no cash access. So obviously I can’t use an ATM.
Any suggestions on how to bypass putting in personal info and use this to take out cash at an ATM? Or is the only option to sign up for the permanent card and then use that to pay bills? (I’d rather just use BB or Serve for that.)
Yeppers – After a few “attempts” it let’s you set PIN without SSN…it will work. Try hitting # or *
Anyone else having problems getting cash from the ATM after setting the PIN. I keep getting errors – “unable to complete this transaction” even though I know the PIN is set correctly. Based on the rush to help me out last time, doubt there will be a better reception for this question, but one can hope
JoeBob, it says that after setting a PIN the card does not have cash access, so you can’t withdraw from an ATM. That’s the bummer.
I *think* the only recourse after setting a PIN is to load the card to BB or Serve.
It looks like the only way to withdraw cash at an ATM is to provide your SSN. I simply don’t want to do that because I was to purchase numerous GD cards, which I doubt GD allows.
But I’m relatively new to all of this and still learning, so I could be totally wrong.
I get the gift card info.
What I’d like to know is the translation for this, “Amazon Payments was completely free, but then again, there is Another Amazon Payments, reference intended.”
The AAA gift cards are not like Amazon payments and there’s nothing called AA payments or AAP payments. I mean I’ve searched around, I read the forums.. trying here. Email me the answer?!
Kind of misleading post. Yes you can buy and unload at an ATM for free but you need to register with SS# in order to get that access. So not scaleable in that way since they do shut accounts down. But with MO’s they can be useful. Pain in the ass to set up alot of them tho.
1. Is this still alive fee free in places? 2. Drew can you elaborate on how you use it for ATM withdrawals without the SSN? No one in comments seems to be able to get cash access without SSN. Thanks!
Too bad you didn’t take HikerT’s advice in regards to publishing this.
Now not only is there a $2.95 fee, but, worse, Rite Aid has hard coded their registers against CC payments. Sharing info like this doesn’t occur in a vacuum buddy.
That said, miraculously this never made it to FT. Deal would have died day after posting had this occurred.
Hard coded? Wow, so weird that it’s hard coded and I still regularly buy em at RA with a credit card.